My first open-source experience (openofffice) has been a good one, and the lure of free software - constantly improving it seems, is strong.
I'm considering the move to Linux, mainly because if I end up liking the system, then I can say goodbye to MS forever, save money, and enjoy vast customization possibilites. It's an experiment for the time being, but I'd like to at least give it a shot.
I'll say that I am SATISFIED with WinXP - nothing easier than the Start Menu. I value ease of use over massive learning curves, and if I can get "there" in fewer clicks, I'm a happy guy. I'm not into fiddling with the OS's settings and tearing my hair out, which is what has kept me away from Linux thus far. Maybe I have nothing to worry about, maybe I do.
So, what would all of you recommend? Please don't turn this into an XP vs. Linux flame war . . . let's respect XP, it's a good OS and it has its place.
My needs:
Software: I use the same small circle of progs every day, although I do like to download freeware apps now and then. In terms of games, I don't play that much, although it would be nice if some of the popular titles were out for Linux, although I can always keep my XP for that, and set up a dual boot, though I would prefer getting rid of XP altogether.
Hardware: My comp and everything inside is about 2 years old, and I'm not looking to upgrade anytime soon. everything stays as is. I hope Linux can recognize most of it. Radeon 8500 128, soundblaster . . . the usual stuff.
All in all, I hope Linux is easy to use. Can it beat the XP start panel? how about installing themes? I like the kde crystal look, for example.
Someone recommended Mandrake - the mix between ease and power, by the way.
By the way, I DO hope Linux can recognize hardware automatically. I'm not looking forward to configuring stuff in the console. I like plug and play, damnit! I assume one of the distros out there can handle this . . . . ?
Funny, I was thinking the same thing a few days ago. I too was satisfied with XP, but I also wanted to try out Linux. On a whim, I decided to go for it, and installed Fedora Core 2. My comments will, therefore, be based on my experience with Fedora.
Software: More likely than not, you'll find something out there for you. For games, you'll probably want to keep XP, since it's got a lot more support behind it. Otherwise, Linux has (free!) alternatives to practically all Windows software. I didn't have any problems finding applications, and once I figured out how to install things, it was almost as simple as using an installer or XP's Add/Remove Programs applet.
Hardware: You should have no problems with hardware. My computer is at least four years old, and Linux (well, Fedora) detected everything fine. I lost a few buttons on my mouse (it went from eight to three), and the internet took a little bit of fuddling around with to make it work, but other than that it was fine. In fact, Fedora detected my sound hardware (onboard sound... shaddup) while XP didn't. That was impressive, to say the least.
I didn't try installing themes, but about the XP start panel bit: the menu in Linux is extremely organized- you shouldn't have any trouble at all figuring out where to find a particular program. And if you're planning on running KDE, it has a "Most Used Applications" (or something like that) list, just like XP does. All in all, the default menu is pretty much summed up as "click, mouse over, click."
Fedora as a whole seemed a lot faster than Windows XP did. I'm not sure why or how, but things that would cause my system to bog down in XP worked just fine in Fedora.
In the end, though, I settled back for XP just because I already know how everything works, and also because there's a few bits of software that I want to run (and yes, to all you Linux diehards, I know about WINE). I also don't have enough disk space to dual boot (heh), so I had to choose one or the other.
I didn't find the learning curve too steep, but I didn't really do much in Fedora besides installing and uninstalling programs.
Thanks for the info, advent, and thanks for wishing me luck! I might need it it, hehe.
I just spoke to a good friend who is a a Linux-using network-building, my-basement-looks-like-NASA type of guy, and he offered to give me a mandrake 9.2 CD that boots from CD, so I can play around with it. I was surprised, because for a Linux-lover he was giving all sorts of warnings and caveats about switching from XP to Linux. He said it might be the perfect move, but that I should use the CD and play around with Mandrake 9.2 for a while before even thinking about an HD install, to get a feel for where everything is and how things work.
As far as what distros to use, he said there are more distros than stars in the sky, but for all-round use and compatibility with my hardware, he recommends RedHat (Fedora) or Madrake (which is his favourite.) So it seems I'll be learning Mandrake. Looks cool, too, what with the KDE as the default theme.
I have a question, though: I have dialup, so downloading a Full Madrake distro is not an option. Buying it is alright, but if it's there for free, then I'll get it for free. My friend will step in and set me up with everything. BUT . . . when I want to upgrade to say, a newer version of Mandrake, will I have to download colossal files (3 CDs at around 650 mb each, or something?) Is there a way to get just the "upgrade" files (maybe 100 meg or so??) and download those? It is just an update after all, right?
By the way . . . I use AOL. How would I install AOL in Linux . . . might be a dumb question, but I usually have a free AOL CD lying around somewhere if I have to reinstall XP.
LTD, I'm pretty sure you can update applications (as well as KDE, et cetera) from within Mandrake as the updates come, and not have to download several .iso files.
The more popular Linux distros have built-in updating features, similar to that of Microsoft and Windows Update.
I'd definitely recommend booting from CD and then playing around in there before doing a hard drive install.
Sygnon, I thought Gentoo would be badass until it randomly died on me while building everything after two straight days (!) of compiling. :)
As far as GUIs go, the more I read about Mandrake (and RedHat, I suppose), the more promising it looks. THis is the kind of GUI that Linux needs to build on, IMHO. XP-like, graphicky, as usable as it can get, lost of things automated . . . yet, FREE. Sounds like a nice deal so far. I just hope that there will be more commercially avaiable software for Linux . . .
God I installed/deinstalled Linux 3 times already. Last 1 was Fedora, looked but didn't even recognize my PS2 mouse...bit sad.
The bottomline is always: Windows works....and works....and works....and works
And you can get everything. As soon as you sit in front of a 60 hertz flickering screen at 800x600 res and your mouse doesn't work and you find out that you have to write something in some ini to make it all work, the enthusiasm ends right there.
**Runs into a corner, teary-eyed, with a terrified look**
B...b.u..but, Mandrake 10 is the most user-friendly distro, that's GUI-driven and . . and . . with automated hardware recognition and that nice control centre thingy and . . . and, fun penguins and point-and-click and only a little bit of command-line stuff and all . . . . . . . . !?
relying too much on the gui/automatic/mandrake configs/whatever takes away the fun from using linux! one thing i loved about linux was how flexible it was. i compiled the kernel with my own settings, messed with kernel modules, fixed some problems with libraries on my own, messed with the rc scripts, etc... it's a great learning experience, imho.
Nah, I would agree, I'm sure it's great fun, just didn't have the time to sit down and do it. Guess you'd need a book to figure it all out. The GUI didn't do it for me, I realized pretty soon that you gotta go deeper if you're not lucky or if you want to get the Max out of it...
No one's mentioned Debian yet, so lemme put it on the board here. It MAY not be the most user friendly, but its not hard to set up, and the apt system for downloading programs is definitely the biggest bonus. You can get all sorts of graphical stuff for it same as for Mandrake (i.e. KDE or Gnome or anything else, I run Openbox). Easy to upgrade/update as well. Small install, you only need to install the stuff you want and nothing else.
I'm going to learn on Mandrake, since it's the easiest, and then I'll go from there. I suppose it;s just a matter of getting used to doing things a bit differently.
My only advice is, if you're planning on - or even considering - dual booting WinXP and Linux, format your drive cleanly and set up your partitions and all that ahead of time. A lot of Linux distros have utilities which will 'take care of that for you' when you install, but there's nothing quite like that sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach when you realize that XP won't boot off it's new partition.
Clean format > Install XP > Install Linux is usually the easiest way to go.
And advent, what Pulsar is describing is VERY typical of what a Linux n00b is going to go through at least once or twice as they learn about the OS. Should people try new things? Of course. But they should also be aware that there's a good chance that their first time out, they won't be able to get their network adaptor/modem working, or their monitor working, or...
When I installed Linux for the first time, I installed it on my only PC. I couldn't get my XP partition to work after installation, I couldn't get my cable modem to work (so I had no way of getting any help), I couldn't get my graphics card working right (0.4 fps in the 3D demos :)), and in the end I was so angry and frustrated with the whole thing that I cleared off my whole drive and virgin installed XP again. I didn't even touch Linux again for a year after that.
Linux is a great tool, and it's getting very close to being a viable desktop OS, but at this point it still requires knowledge and experience to really get a handle on. People need to know up front that they're in for a learning experience and not a walk in the park, and they need to have plans (or an experienced friend) for getting information and troubleshooting help when things don't go right BEFORE they install Linux.
Linux is pretty good, better then XP anyway. (Even tho i like Win XP quite alot). If your gonna get Linux, get Linux Mandrake, as i think its the best. And if you wanna go a step further you should get FreeBSD (LUV FREEBSD!!!) [pwnz all]
in order to use linux, you cant be a dumbass. thats all you need to know.
and btw, why do u think most servers and such are run on linux pulsar? maybe because linux boxes can be on for months without lagging or crashing and thats not somthing u cant say can be done with windows.
linux is all about stability and being old school doing everything manually. As i said, its not for idiots.
1.) From the research I've been doing, from what my Linux-loving friend says, and from the reviews written by everyday users - both noob and experienced, is that XP is "better" because it works right out of the box. A 6-year old can use it. Everything is automated, and it is very rare that it won't recognize this or that on the first shot, especially if your system is fairly new. Having said that, "better" seems to be a very tricky word these days.
2.) My reasons for trying Linux (and hoping I stick with it)??
-Open Source . . .FREE. I already have OpenOffice, and I'm impressed with it. Why not go completely Open Source? Worst-case scenario: I can get it for 20 bucks CDN if I order off the net. Free, or 20, compared to over $100 for Windows. -I'll have something different. -Nothing like putting together a new rig and just downloading all your prorgams. -Constantly improving. It seems Mandrake's GUI has come a long way. User-friendliness is a must. -Flexibility and customization - not critical for me at this point, but it will be nice down the road.
Concerns: Aside from the obvious compatibility concerns, I want to be able to install whatever version of Mandrake, and then if I want, download update files so I can have the newest version. Who wants to download another 3 iso images about 650mb each??? I want EASY updating - no uninstalling and then instaling a new version.
Games. Yeah, some have been ported to Linux, and although I'm not a huge gamer at all, there needs to be more of a selection, commecially.
AOL support. I know what you're all thinking, LOL. It'll be a pain in the ass to set up with a new ISP. Oh well.
mandrake is an excellent starting point, you can lean what you need and ramp up your linux knowledge, whereas somthing like suse will be alot more rough
I'm getting Mandrake10 in about 3 days, including that 4th CD ;-)
A number of people claim that it is so easy to use, that there is no need to really "learn" anything beforehand - it's totally newb friendly. I'm not joking, here . . . there are a TON of first-time uers who claim that it is enough to have standard knowledge of XP when using Mandrake10. It apparently has the best hardware recognition by far, in fact, according to a few claims, my Radeon 8500 will not only have drivers for it, but will have FULL 3D acceleration under Mandrake10. Command console usage is reduced to a minimum, they say. Well, if Mandrake10 is, as the company claims, their platform for pushing Linux way into the mainstream, then hell, I'll test that. XP worked right out of the box. How well can Mandrake10 pull this off?
I won't use any live CD **gasp**. I've got all my files backed up, and I'll take the plunge. If I have to reinstall XP or fix things, I'm ready. That'll be the REAL test: jumping right in to Mandrake. How fast can I be up and working in OpenOffice? How fast can I start playing MP3s or burning CDs? Will it take more than 1 install? Will I have to reinstall XP? Will I go through a manageable install and ease in to it, or will I crash and burn, and tear my hair out? I think this is the true test of any OS that claims to be so user-friendly, even a Linux OS. I'm not expecting it to be as easy as XP, so I'm willing to put up with a bit of work here and there.
I'll use it for a full week (if I get that far ;-), and I'll write a detailed review, from a complete Linux newb's perspective.
Mandrake is a windoze clone with *nix power. It's hands down the best choice for a newbie. I've had a dual boot xp/mdk since 2000' and I'm not going back.
A suggestion though before you install is to read around through the internet and concentrate on the different filesystems and to test your hardware, so that you don't have issues or at least you know you have issues you can actually deal with
For the most part, MDK supports almost everything. It still has ATCPI issues (laptop plugin plugout freezes)
Here are a couple of solid suggestions for configuring a dual boot sys...
1. Make the proper partitions - Make a partition for mdk from windows using partition magic or some other program like that, if it's available to you, try using ext3 or resierfs as a file system. - There should be a SWAP Space for your linux install and it should be no less in size than your ram.
2. Making another partition for simple file storage. -especially while you are using two OS's. What I have done is created a third partition in FAT32 that stores things like my mp3's, documents, pictures, commonly used files that I need to access back and forth from either OS. - this used to be a problem with the older kernel's becuase they couldn't reliably write to NTFS partitions, I think as of mid last year they can, but I would double check before going through with your choices. -Another reason this is a good suggestion is that if you mess things up, you always have that saviour partition with all your stuff backed up to..
KDE/Gnome are the sexiest things alive, you can do absolutely anything to them :D
Good Luck!
If you need help or have questions with your install don't hesitate to ask.
I checked the Mandrake10 HCL, and it seems my hardware is supported - that is, it's known to work. Fair enough. I noticed that it doesn't really like LG CD drives, but it seems that does not apply to burners, so I guess I'm alright. I'm sure if worst comes to worst, I can do a search for another driver and then uh . . . . "compile" it. LOL. Wahtever. I'm sure I'll find out soon enough. ;-)
LTD - you can be listening to mp3s on xmms damn near instantly and just select open office with the install should be no problem at all
on another note, it is a good idea to install more than you need, especially development libraries, because when you choose to install new things, it sucks to not have all the needed peices
Scanners recognition is fine, apparently . . but it's a bit iffy with thingl like webcams. From my research, it is not uncommon that Mandrake10 recognizes all of your hardware. Nvidia drivers are a bit of a problem - they're out there, but their installation requiers a bit of work. I think Radeons have full 3D acceleration, though.
As far as the apps go, most of them can do all or nearly all their commercial counterparts can do, but they're free. I haven't seen many complaints about apps.
As far as commercial apps go, that's a different story. Quite a few business/home/productivity apps have Linux versions, as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Games are the area in which Linux is lacking, although a number of current popular titles have been ported to Linux. We'll see . . . . but with the popularity of consoles these days, some people are predicting a downturn in PC games anyway. Go figure.
I'm getting a boxed version of Mandrake10, my good buddy Joe's got it, so he's passing it on. That means I also get the apps that are on the 4th CD.
Yes, running it on servers doe make sense, but if by "playful" natures you mean home users or even newbs, well, Mandrake10 is geared toward them especially. It's supposed to be Linux's platform for the average user. So far, reviewers and newbs seem to approve. I have yet to make a decision.
when i say idiots i mean like somone who doesent know their way around a pc. You need to have a more than decent understanding of computers to use linux due to the way it installs, etc. it has a high learning curve.
Experienced users with time and patience I'd say ;) I wanted to take a peek at it (other than Knoppix which worked fine) and slowly ease in. But some basics always failed to work and I just wasn't up to spending the time on it. Also I kind of need every byte on my HD's and Linux always fell prey to some incoming project.
Well, another install is near, would be no. 5 then...
I can't say that I actually have any experience with Mandrake; but I don't really understand its appeal.
As time progresses, Redhat and SuSE are clearly emerging as the industry leaders in linux software and they are the two distributions that are the most "standard" when it comes to apps.
As far as Debian and APT go, apt has been ported to many other systems now so Debian's draw is mostly gone from that perspective. I know Fedora uses apt and is quite a bit easier than Debian to work with.
There are definitely issues to consider when making the move over to Linux. First off; it is likely that your hardware may not be recognized under any distribution. Again, you're probably going to have the best luck with Redhat (Fedora) and SuSE on this one as hardware vendors who do any Linux testing are most likely testing with these distributions.
You also have to consider accelerated 3d graphics performance....which can be astoundingly good under Linux; however, not all graphics cards are supported equally. You need to make sure that there is an accelerated driver available for your card. Most ATI and nvidia cards shouldn't be an issue.
Most importantly, you need to consider your every day tasks; don't think about the what-ifs. Take some time to think about what you really DO with your compter on a daily basis. If you want to browse the web 95% of the time and you're already using Firefox, then the move to free software might just be right for you. You're already using the browser, why not move to the free OS? Do you play a lot of video games? Hit up the transgaming (http://www.transgaming.com) web site and see what you can find out about support under Linux. If that doesn't work, check with the vendors. However, be aware that even though your current favorites might be supported, you might not be able to play the newest games when they are released, you may have to wait a while. Support is growing, but it's going to take some time. Do you use Microsoft Office a lot? Well, do like LTD did and try OpenOffice under windows. If it works for you (as it does for about 99% of people) then feel free to make the switch.
Do you do a lot of multimedia stuff? Well, realplayer is available under Linux; as well as many other codecs such as DivX, Xvic, and support is available for WMA and other formats. The latest versions of several tools also support the latest quicktime format and most of these are easy to install; so getting up and running to watch your videos and such is easy.
Do a lot of CD burning? Well, I'm not sure exactly how the state of this is progressing but I understand it's getting a lot easier. Do some reading.
Got a digital camera? There are many great tools that support digital camera interfaces under Linux. Check out their documentation to see if your camera is supported; most are as they are pretty standard these days.
Email and instant messaging...well, they are two things that for quite some time have been better under Linux than Windows, so no worries there.
Filesharing is progressing; there are clients for BitTorrent and eMule...and I'm sure there are others as well.
So there are just a few things to consider. Just remember, figure out what you really want to be able to do with your computer. That's the most important consideration.
darksheer [ds] Customize.org Staff Business Development
That's good advice, darksheer! In fact, you pretty mkuch described what I want to do: web-browsing (when I leave AOL), multimedia, producticvity with OpenOffice and the several other text-manipulation apps included . . . even graphics editing with the GIMP. Lots of possibilities.
I'm happy with what I'm reading about multimedia under Madrake10. The burning app included is uspposed to outclass Nero for XP, and one of the mediaplyers works alot like Winamp. The reason I'm starting with Mandrake10 is because it's purported to be the easiest distro for beginners. I will of course, consider other distros as I learn more.
Hardware support looks to be good . . . at least all my stuff looks to be supported.
Mandrake has a long history of being known as the "easiest" distro for beginners.
But at this point, it's just history. Fedora, SuSE are both known as standard and just as easy to get started with as Mandrake. I suggest them because they are more "standard"
darksheer [ds] Customize.org Staff Business Development
I think to figure out what you REALLY work with every day is a good point. I'm all about simplifying things!
Yeah, that's definitely something very important that most people don't take the time to think about. They focus on sound bites and "reports" about what Linux can and cannot do; but they don't ever take the time to think about what they themselves do with their computer.
Any system can do a TON more than the average person needs. You have to decide what you really do need.
darksheer [ds] Customize.org Staff Business Development
