argumentative topic: alcohol at 18?

i don't really care either way because i don't drink... i think if it was 16 or 18 then there would be less allure for high schoolers to go get completely fucked up because it's illegal. same with pot.

_____________________________

no one sleeps yet, let's keep it going until the morning.

I dont drink and I dont ever plan to, but I dont really think it matters what the age is. Its not like its stopping anybody, but there is an age requirement for a reason and I think it should be followed.

FrostedFlames || Custo Admin

if you can sign up and get yourself killed at 18 by joining the military, imo you should certainly be allowed to drink, no matter how stupid it is to do so. How you damage your own body should be up to you!

Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb.

drinking should be made illegal

-I don't not have no idea

I agree with your statements, I think the legal drinking age should be lowered to the age of 18, when you think about all of those things u can do at 18, why not drink?

"I have not failed, I've found 10,000 ways that won't work." ~Thomas Edison

i'm not sure if s pl it5 02 was being sarcastic, but that's just going to lead to another prohibition. and that just led to a tremendous rise in overall corruption and under-the-table drinking. it's the forbidden fruit concept : deny something to make it that much more irresistible. an arbitrary age limit, no matter what it is, is going to be questioned. it's hoped that by 21, you should be able to make more rational decisions by having experienced more of the world as an adult than you would have by the time you're 18, but that's not always the case.

my opinion stands strong. just as many adults (21+) are charged with dui's each year as underage drinkers. the law targets youth. i do not think the country would be much different if the age was changed. look at other country's, countries do not even have ages (some) and they seem to work. now ill admit there is no other that can compare to america (dont know if this is true, its what i believe) and i can see where people have concerns. but what is the harm in giving the age change a trial. try it in one state. i mean underage drinking can drastically change you future if you are caught (depends). should someone's future be largely altered bc they drank? that person could have found a cure for cancer. i dont know, im just keeping the topic open. i love confrontation, i love to argue.
----------------------------------------------
i love tara!!!
- Jay aka Rubix aka Elixir aka Sonic
- http://www.elixir.tk

ive been to europe many times and people are drinking all the time and having a good time, everything is more laid back there and i think its great. people my age were drinking and nobody was looking down on them it was great and think america should be the same, 21 is too old of an age to start drinking (legally). at 21 you are too much of an adult to party a lot and you're too young to start a family. its an awkward stage of life.

you can drink at 19 in canada, w00t.

»you're motherfuckin with number one.

To frosted flames, Sure there is a age limit for a reason....but do you even know what that reason is? or are you just being a mindless sheep following the sheep herder? Not to make it sound like a personal attack or anything.

schwap!

I agree with frosted and Mojo. i could give you the negatives as well, but heed the words of the wise.

Im from australia, and the legal age is 18 here.
But that still doesnt stop underage drinking.
No matter what the age, or laws, people will still drink and break them.

Last time i checked, drugs were illegal.

everyone's got this 'ooh drinking is disgusting' kinda attitude...thats really weird.

I think that the age should be lowered, i dont live in USA (im in Canada) but if you can die for your caontrey at 18 well im srry but wat ups wit that? Your not allowed to drink but u can die??? Yes its a nobal cause and all but still yuo should have the right to drink at 18 if you can join the army at 18. I think that maybe the reason why its at 19 here is because they didnt want ppl drinking while in highschool, but now we dont have grade 13 so it probably should be lowered. You raise a really good point though and i agree with it.
.x.[Mady].x.

I don't think drinking should be lowered from 21.
But I do think pot should be made legal to an extent.

StrYdeR...

Alcohol is a DOWNER that reduces activity in the central nervous system. The alcohol intoxicated person exhibits loose muscle tone and loss of fine motor coordination.

Not to mention the long term damage it does to your body and all the negative effects it has on society. (drunk driving, alcoholics, abuse etc)

The only positive things you get out of alcohol is the lame excuse that it "makes you feel good". There are lots of other things you can do for that... such as putting your drink down and getting a life.

And don't even give me that "its somewhat healthy" or "a glass of wine a day is good for you", because you get more out of a glass of grape juice, then if you were to drink wine. Any real person who is concerned about keeping there body healthy wouldnt try to use that excuse anyways.

FrostedFlames || Custo Admin

OWNED.

*claps*
anyway anything alcoholic is freaking nasty.. its like licking sandpaper soaked in cleaning solvent.
i think the age should be left where it is... at 21 HOPEFULLY your are almost nearly mature enough to understand the consequences of alcohol..therefore you are prepared for them.



Everyone has a sociopath in them, only I'm different becuase I let mine out.

Everyone has the right to put in their body what they want, regardless of popular beliefs or laws. Just because the rules say you cant drink till your 21 doesnt mean you must abide by it. There is no magical man standing over your shoulder to stop you. Go have a drink, go drive, go do so many drugs that your reality slowly becomes replaces with a permant drug induced stupior. I wish every 16 year old or 18 year old could take a drink and still mantain their composure but the fact is they cant. Excess is key. As you get older drinking becomes less about getting drunk and more about the drink itself, or you mantain that thrist for liquor and end up in a gutter some where shaking cause you spent your last 50 cents on a beer during college night then accidently bumped into some college kids and they whumped your bum ass and took your shoes. You'll drink if you want, and you wont if you dont.

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

but my point is that by the age of 21 you hopefully have enough sense ,more than if you were 16 or 18, to only let the consequences effect you. drinking-driving effects other people, if you drive drunk and hit a tree and die, ill laugh at your grave, if you hit and kill my wife/girlfriend/relative while driving drunk...i kill you. simple as that.



Everyone has a sociopath in them, only I'm different becuase I let mine out.

Viper, you took the words right out of my mouth
" if you drive drunk and hit a tree and die, ill laugh at your grave, if you hit and kill my wife/girlfriend/relative while driving drunk...i kill you. simple as that. "

its only that simple till you or someone you know gets drunk and hits a tree or someone elses wife/girlfriend/relative.

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

i can get fried on the electric chair but i cant legally have a beer? what kind of shit is that yo.

http://www.customize.org/forum/7193

if someone i know drinks-drives-dies, thats their own doing, they deserved it, oh well, one less craphole to suck the air. if they kill someone else, same thing. either someone kills them or they go to prison till they die.



Everyone has a sociopath in them, only I'm different becuase I let mine out.

its not their own doing. If you feel so strongly about this issue i would only assume you would surround yourself with those people who wouldnt drink and drive or even put yourself or your friends in that position. IE being around alcohol. You cant accept the root but bash the problems it creates. People are stupid, people get drunk and become even more stupid. If you want alcohol for all the prepare for the consiquences.

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

when i was 18 i got arrested for drunk driving after i crashed into a parked Lincoln Continental at about 50 mph. while i was in the "tank" the cops asked me some questions to which i apparently answered incorrectly because they proceeded to beat the shit out of me. they told me that they wouldnt get in trouble because they would tell the judge that my cuts and bruses were the result of the car crash. for years i hated all cops until i realized that i had nobody to blame but myself. i've since come to realize it was probably the best beating of my life. every day i thank god im still alive and even more, that i didnt kill anyone because of my stupitity.

i only tell this true story because when i was comming home from christmas at my parents yesterday, i saw a car upside down. it apparently flew off an overpass and landed on its roof. the car looked so flat and it must of just happened because the cops were just kinda walking around it trying to get into it. i wonder if they were the drunk drivers or if they were the victims of a drunk driver who probably didnt even realize what they did. all i know is is that i learned my lesson 22 years ago and im reminded of it everyday. i just urge everyone to really think hard before hand. everything we do, every action we take has an impact on somthing, someone, somewhere, somehow. make it possitive. thanks for reading this.

Wow, good story MaddDadd kept me busy for 5 minutes, and a good lesson behind it. Don't drink and drive simple. And also, be glad that you can live, and do the things you do everyday like it were your last. But if it really were my last, i'd be sitting under alot better computer, (haha to those who know what I meant.)

umm real quick thing here - SONIC, you had said maybe just try it in one state....wouldn't that just cause thousands of out-of-state kids to come in and buy liquor then return home?

j.w

~.blurred:" :ambiguous illusions:

:-/ Wow I am sorry but that really made me laugh...

blurred, the state could regulate and only allow residents of that state to purchase. im pretty sure cashiers are smart enough to tell state id's apart. to frostedflames and his defenders:
i dont understand how what you said supports the arguement. so alochol is bad for you and is a depresasnt and can cause problems. it's not as bad as smoking, and we can smoke at 18.

----------------------------------------------
i love tara!!!
- Jay aka Rubix aka Elixir aka Sonic
- http://www.elixir.tk

dude its pretty obvious from your posts that you are lacking in age to really comment on this subject at all, let alone bring it up. Just drop it. I stand by the statement, if you wish to drink then do so.

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

And one more, OWNED. Sorry...Don't hit me.

hash you dont make sense to me. i am of age to consider the subject, i brought it up just to see what other people think, not to get bashed. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you have yours i have mine, dont bash what other people believe in. i didnt bash what you guys said, just agrued againest it with what i think.
----------------------------------------------
i love tara!!!
- Jay aka Rubix aka Elixir aka Sonic
- http://www.elixir.tk

You say everyone is entitled to their own opinion yet you also say

"i dont understand how what you said supports the arguement. so alochol is bad for you and is a depresasnt and can cause problems. it's not as bad as smoking, and we can smoke at 18."

If you cant see and accept the consiquences and reprocutions that frosted flames and I and a few others have stated then you shouldnt be anywhere near a drink. It also doesnt matter what age you are, if you cant understand simple arguements in a conversation that you started then what the hell was the point?

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

Aside from all that crap, you have still yet to state a valid point for changing the drinking age except for "we can be straped to the electric chair" or "we can smoke and fight for our country". The only thing you seem to be arguing for is under age drinking with no consequences. Dont be such a wuss.

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

i think drinking should not be a big deal. kids who make it a big deal...ruin their lives by doing too much of it and getting poisened. parents who don't let their kids drink some at home...are tight asses....if i kid never drinks they won't know how to and then they will go crazy when they can and off the selces....the legal age to buy should be 21 i guess but you should be able to consume it at what ever age...the amount of tight ass laws in america...astounding.

"I don't want to change your mind/ I don't want to waste your time."

i don't know what a selces is....but it sounds like something you don't want to go off.

"I don't want to change your mind/ I don't want to waste your time."

Hhmm. I think it's time we let this thread die.

little bit more yet..

"I don't want to change your mind/ I don't want to waste your time."

i dont drink, but why does it matter whether drinkin age is at 18 or 21. since ppl could get w/e they want illegally so easily
that is just my opinion

If the government were to lower the legal drinking age to 18, then I think they should raise the legal driving age to 21.

There's a point to be made there. Most young kids can't handle responsibility - especially in the case of driving. It's not true for everybody, but the same type of people that have problems driving would likely be the same people that would have problems with drinking. Mixing those two would be disastrous. In my experience, I've seen plenty of people of legal age who shouldn't be drinking because they can't control themselves.

It's all a matter of personal responsibility and discipline, or rather maturity. While age factors into this somewhat, it's not a pure indicator of a person's maturity.

*claps again*
exactly.
you have to group the irresponsible with the mature to prevent things. its bad the the good have to 'suffer', but oh well. its not like you can go around to every single person and examine them to see if they are responsible or not.
-the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few-


Everyone has a sociopath in them, only I'm different becuase I let mine out.

every drug should be legal for anyone 18+. the government is not supposed to be 'daddy'.

:-/ Yes tau lets have chaos and people sitting in office stoned making choices of our everyday life, oh mr.president, don't touch that button we will all die.

We've proven repeatedly that as a whole, people are often far too stupid to make their own decisions. I don't want a nanny-state government - in fact, I hate the idea - but legalizing drugs isn't the right step to take.

it doesnt matter if drugs are legal. Its been proven time and time again that legalizing drugs does not mean the amount of drugs consumed will rise. Quite the oppisite actually.

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

actually, Hash, i dont thinks it's been proven even once anywhere, ever, lol. if youre talkin about places in europe like Copenhagen (sp) or somthing, it just proves that drug use goes up. i know many people who vacation there just so they can do drugs legally. i could be wrong, but if you have links to statistics that support your claim please post them, i dont mind being wrong :-). but legalizing drugs just for the sake of abusing them is a bad idea all around.

Sonic...

"i dont understand how what you said supports the arguement. so alochol is bad for you and is a depresasnt and can cause problems. it's not as bad as smoking, and we can smoke at 18."

Maybe the long term affects of drinking aren't as bad as smoking (Im actually not sure which has worse long-term affects), butlighting up a cigarette before you step in your car isnt going to affect anyone (aside from 2nd hand smoke). Smoking's short-term affects are not similar to those of alcohol.

FrostedFlames || Custo Admin

That's a tenuous statement at best. There were nearly 100 million people addicted to opium in China around the turn of the century because opium was legal. It took China 50 years to solve the problem.

European countries that have experimented with drug legalization have paid for it. The United Kingdom, Spain, the Netherlands and Switzerland, to name a few, have had plenty of problems with decriminalization.

"i can get fried on the electric chair but i cant legally have a beer?"

"if you can sign up and get yourself killed at 18 by joining the military, imo you should certainly be allowed to drink"

At 18 you are old enough to know the consequences of your actions that are deserving of the electric chair. You are able to understand that killing someone isnt ok and that blowing up your school is wrong... You're old enough to stand up for and fight for your country and the freedoms it has given you. Maybe you aren't given the freedom to drink as you'd like, but it beats a lot of other countries.

At 18 most are NOT old enough and mature enough to understand the consequences that may come from drinking. Most dont understand the effects and the responsibility you need when drinking.

Im a 17 year old senior, so most of my friends are 17-18. A large portion of the "popular kids" from my senior class at school find it fun to go to "parties" to get wasted and throw up all over the place and have as much sex and do as much drugs as they can. Don't try to tell me that these same people are old enough to decide for themselves if they want to drink freely or not. I have friends that are turning 18 and think its not cool to smoke, just because they are old enough to.

I find it ridiculous that just because you're old enough to do something or that you feel you are, that you do it. People need to realize that these things are hurting there bodies and arent doing anything positive for them.

There legal age to drink is 21 for a reason. And that reason is because at that age people are SUPPOSE to be responsible enough to make there own decisions and act responsibly. But you cant even tell me that they do that... so why in the world would you want to lower the age and allow even more irresponsible actions to take place?


(sorry for any typos or anything unclear, Im typing as Im thinking)

FrostedFlames || Custo Admin

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/iss21-1.htm

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/health/story/0,4395,160002,
00.html

Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb.

" I sit here and think to myself why, oh why hasn't this thread been locked yet. " -Testing123

The amount of drugs consumed by a society has nothing to do with whether or not its legalized. Look at the society and times of China. Opium was legal for the pure reason that it was never made illegal. There was no law that stated opium could be smoked freely. It was consumed that way as part of hertige and to escape the increadibly shitty life they lead. Another thing MaddDadd, your friends that go over to Europe to simply do drugs are the ONLY reason why coffee shops are being closed in Amsterdamn. Stupid tourists that flock to their town to do lots of drugs while the locals simply watch in amazement.

[gear] my dick is indeed 3x, if not more, of my toe

i feel that many 18 year olds do realize the risks and consequences of drinking and smoking. if not what was the point of all the school programs that we have been thru since 5th grade? i feel most are in fact able to decide if they want to drink. no one is forcing them to. people that drink til they puke and then drive are not being responsible, everyone realizes that. but there are plently of people taht are old enough to legally drink taht are the same way. ive seen this at parties my parents and neighbors have had. ive seen that at football games. i was at the uva-pitt bowl game today and a guy prolly around 40 almost got in a fist fight with a kid who was prolly 15 or 16 because he was drinking!
if the age was 18, poeple would not drink because they are old enough at all. people who drink, drink because they like to, everyone knows the effects. a good 80% of the people i know are at least 18 and 5-10% of them smoke. everyone who smokes knows the effects too. people do what they like, not because of their age, not because they are forced to, but because they like it (or with smoking, are addicted-however most teens are not addicted, thats because they like it or 'want to be cool' but that's beside the point). and i dont thikn you can say people drink 'to be cool' because i don't feel tahts the case at all. ive done plenty of partying in my years. i drank more in high school than at college and went to more parties in high school. there are plenty of people at parties that dont drink. i dont know about you guys, but where i come from people respect what other people believe and do, if you dont want to drink then you dont have to. and some people that arent drinking at the party are driving, thats a very responsible decision.

'so why in the world would you want to lower the age and allow even more irresponsible actions to take place?'

with the age at 18, i feel that there would be no change in the amount of irresponsible actions. people who drink underage are going to be just as irresponsible if they are under 21 as they would be if they were 21. in fact, ive been at parties where people have left the party, drunk and driving just to get away from police so they do not get caught drinking to begin with.
personally, i feel the age at 18 would work fine. i live in a county called chesterfield, and it's nickname is arrestifield just because of the number of roadblocks, speeding tickets issued, and parties that have been busted. the cops are pretty thick and i feel people would be responsible enough. everyone knows the consequences here, the rules are strick and something like a dui on your record never goes away. people are more responsible than given credit for. ive especially noticed the responsibility of others with the threat of terrorism.
----------------------------------------------
i love tara!!!
- Jay aka Rubix aka Elixir aka Sonic
- http://www.elixir.tk

btw, im going out of town til the 31st in 7 hours, don't lock this thread yet :p.

----------------------------------------------
i love tara!!!
- Jay aka Rubix aka Elixir aka Sonic
- http://www.elixir.tk

O.o Oh ok, yeah sure admins just listen to him. Let it go on, it is the night and all....where you going sonic?

Yes you can die for your country at 18, Yes you can smoke a cigarrette at 18, and yes u can be setenced to death at 18 (even younger sometimes). However the fact of the matter is, with smoking, joining the military, and capitol punishment, the only person you are messing with is yourself. You choose to smoke thats fine and dandy cause it only hurts you. (other than 2nd hand smoke.) You join the military you are saying i choose the possible death in the line of work. Great, once again your only gonna hurt yourself, or others that volunteered for the same ideas. Death penatly, you did the crime and you are sentenced to death, thats your own damn fault for bein a moron and commiting the crime in the first place. When u drink it alters your body and mind so much that its not only goin to hurt u. The possibility to hurt other is so great. Your not just volunteering your own life for whatever happens but you are volunteering the life of every person u drive by on the road while intoxicated. As frosted flames said earlier, the chances of you hurting someone from lighting up a cigarette before u get in a car are soooo minimal. At the age of 21, the government hopes you are smart enough to not only look out for youself, but the others you might put in danger as well.

I am one of the VooDoo who do what you dont dare do people.

Often times people of younger ages will try drugs simply because of the alure of their illegality. If someone feels like crystal meth is a good thing to do then let them. It's not like anyone will be able to stop them. My father is a world renowned doctor who does clinical studies (drug testing) for the FDA and drug companies. According to him, the claims that are being made about drugs are false or completely blown out of preportion. People are going to take drugs, no matter what we do. But, in America, someone can get longer sentances because of weed then someone who murdered someone. People are killed everyday because of this failed "war on drugs" as well as the countless gang wars. You never hear about a gang war over beer or cigars do you? What about how people spike drugs or make them incorrectly? This wouldn't happen if industies made them. People wouldn't have the risk of taking rat poisin instead of heroin. There would also be less HIV/AIDS. The point of my ramblings is, that people are going to take drugs no matter what we do. Why bother putting everyone at risk?

If I'm not mistaken... drunk driving is illegal.

And the assumption that everybody who drinks is going to run out and jump in their car is kind of silly.

I'm not feeling this.

According to CBSNews, in the U.S last year 17,448 people died in alcohol related crashes. Maybe everybody who drinks isnt going to run out and jump in a car, but quite a few do....

FrostedFlames || Custo Admin

in the US, a good fifty thousand people die in car crashes every year. the overwhelming majority of which are caused by driver error.

well, drinking coffee while driving is irresponsible, we should prevent that by outlawing coffee.

talking on the cell phone is dangerous too, and since we can't count on people to use their own good sense, let's outlaw cellphones too.

come to think of it, we should just outlaw cars.

I'm not feeling this.

status, get your ass in irc.

Γ▀π senex
The mighty colossus has thought much over what you've said and has one thing to say in reply: "Hey, you're a screaming dildo, aren't you?"

You can drink at any age here in Australia (that's what I've noticed anyway), alcohol has been integrated into the very essence of our complex society.
B.B.B.B & B : Babes, Beer, Beach, BBQ & Boobs

"qwertz is a pixel wh0re" [:. Googlism.com .:]

senex, i did but you were gone already. if it was important, hit me at sedixon@charter.net

I'm not feeling this.

If the government were to lower the legal drinking age to 18, then I think they should raise the legal driving age to 21. -- Wynton

I wholeheartedly agree with you wynton. There is good logic in this statement. :)


--
If you look at a tree as simply being a tree then that's what you will see, if you look at a tree as being just another tree in front or behind the other trees in the forest, then you will see the entire forest

Wasted... No one is talking about outlawing alcohol. So saying the we should outlaw those other things isnt proving any point. You said the assumption that everyone who drinks will drive is silly, I was merely proving that a large amount of people do drink and drive and that it is a problem. Drinking coffee and talking on a cell phone isnt the same. Those distract you from driving, but I do think you shouldn't be allowed to do other things while driving.

FrostedFlames || Custo Admin

There's really no comparison between drinking and driving and talking on a cell phone and driving. It is certainly unsafe to be distracted - in fact, most states have laws against "distracted driving" now. However, it's something else entirely when somebody drives drunk. Those of us here who have been drunk know what it's like - driving is the absolute last thing on your mind, or at least it should be.

heh, i think its funny how states have laws against "distracted driving" yet probably about 1/2 the people i see on cell phones while driving are cops.

but yes i totally agree with Flint, atleast for me and the people i hang out with when we are drunk...or whatever else we may be that night :D driving....or even going outside to have a smoke when its cold is quite literally the lat things on our minds. So really...we have these laws because of the fools in our society that cant grasp the concept of common sense and limits to what can and cant be done.

yes, people have no common sense.
if you dont drink, then you will never have the ability to drive drunk.
if you dont smoke, you wont be giving other people 2nd hand smoke.
if you dont do drugs, you cant get addicted, you cant lose your judgment and hurt other people.

for the life of me i dont understand why people constantly want to destroy themselves.



Everyone has a sociopath in them, only I'm different becuase I let mine out.

The bottom line to any of this is that regardless of what the legal drinking age is, there will always be kids younger than that getting into the liquor cabinet. There's nothing you can do legally to discourage this. The only option is for parents to actually spend some time teaching their children about alcohol/drugs/sex/whatever rather than just saying 'Don't do it because I said.' The only thing that does is give them something to rebel against. Suck it up, give your kids the credit they deserve, and have a real conversation with them. Share your experiences, give them a controlled environment