I got back on customize to read the wonderful comments left on my last post to this message board, and I guess some felt as if I was put in my place. lol. Okee dokee. ;) The main admin commentor actually sounded intelligent (rkenshin), and I was happy that some of what I said was actually addressed. My only thought about it all was if the adults in your world are more immature than kids, I wonder what your world is like? It must, as you say....suck. It is of course a generalization and an overdramatization to suggest that many adults are less mature than kids. Generally when someone makes the suggestion that many kids are more mature than adults, the person making the suggestion is under the age of 30 themselves :) Anyways, onto this post. I wanted to post a few examples of what graphic art "IS".....what professional graphic artists do, as opposed to what teenagers do. The latter of which is what I'm sure most of you here are familiar with. Take a look at these two pictures real quick for me would ya ? :) This graphic art is done by a professional : This finger painting is done by a hormonally challenged individual who's watched too many alien movies and has been on too many skin sites collecting "wows" from the other youngins: (notice the regurgitated borg like digital anarchy that's been done 15,492,728 times before? Now here is a good example of a professional that spent more than an a half an hour on something before uploading, lol : And here were have another "thoughtful" scanlined ameobic uhhh....Thing... from this site weighing in at 14,000 downloads and diserving of such a high praised and may I say eloquent comment as....ahem...."Fuken sweet !" lol. Word ! lol. So...., hopefully so far we can see a difference between those who actually diserve the title, "graphic artist" and those diserving of....., well..., diserving of the tiny ego boosts they get after finishing off yet another duplicate trippytechnotrendytenticletranslucenttubethingy. But wait, there's more :) Graphic art done by a professional: Automotonic, drool inducing, seen one seen them all, attempts at abstraction by fading layers and shifting objects in photoshop: Oh, I almost forgot another comparison that I wanted to throw out. A picture on this site, that I just glanced at, had the following comments: "The name of that picture sounds like a hemmroid creme." Followed by others telling the previous commentor that he spelled hemmeroid wrong. Some of the professional pictures I posted contain areas for commentors that have comments like the following. "I have a project that I'd be interested in your help with, the pay is good, please contact me" from someone ready to pay the "Graphic artist" thousands of dollars. You see the difference here.
Now I know, I know, I know.....we all don't have $2,000 render engines, we all have different likes and dislikes, and not everyone favors realism, and most importantly, this isn't meant to be a site for professional graphic artists who make a living making art. Granted. If this be the case, which it is, then simply don't act like you are a professional by talking shit, and being arrogant, and acting liking your blessed with an incredible amount of artistic knowledge. Shut up. Simple. Shut up, and go to school...., or....shut up and actually learn more than a few high end render engines, but more to the point, just shut up. Stop acting like your actually doing something. If your just playing around in photoshop or opened up max or bryce a few times, that's very cool. Upload, the public wants to see it. But, if your just playing around, and have done a few trendy pics and maybe fiddle dicked around with some modeling.....your opinion is simply muddled chimming to the tune of, "dats some sweet azz shit bro". Another words, not an adult, that actually gets payed for what he or she does to support "cool" little techno yuppie larva like yourself. A side note quickly for commentors of the locked post entitled "to the admins". To the 22 year old ( lol ) that called me a chump, I don't upload my art to this site anymore. Too many people like yourself looking to show everyone their penis in the form of flaming. And to the other commentor that said that my points were valid but poorly said. I'm guessing maybe I should not say the world fuck more than 20 times in one post huh? You might have a point. However, I really don't give a fuck about how well recieved my posts are. Nothing I've said in this post or the last one is any where near as bad as the Juvenile un-evolved mud slinging comments left on pictures I've uploaded to this site in the past. No where near. How do I end a post to get my prepubecent mindless rebellion kiddy cacophany point across? Is it.... Word ! lol No no no Paragraph! no no no no no You been served up a hot bowl of hell... ahahahaha I could only hope to be so cool one day, and make such excellent points. I'd re-read your response to me rkenshin, and point out some flaws, but I don't really feel like it to be honest. I will say this, no one said anything about being "like" deskmod. When someone says, you should possible try something someone else is doing because it might actually help you, that isn't suggesting you become like them. But that's where you went with it so, my point of course was lost. As I'm sure this post will be too. Please, I'm begging for someone to tell me what they think of me. Please insult me instead of dealing with the subject contained within this post. :) Love Gwabble
06:56 am, Sunday, November 17, 2002 (10 years ago)
well, I do agree with your point of view... what is "cool" at the moment is mostly the same stuff, other color, other shape but no true divergence or inspiration.
On the other hand, I wouldn't argument about that, because in the end you have no chance. Never argue with fanatics or internet users, in the end you have no chance because one can't use ratio any more against unrational "arguments" ;)
Long sentence, short meaning: Laught about them, smile, but don't take them seriously.
I liked to read your text and especially the links you posted.
I read some of your comments you left on other people's "digital overkill". It seems like your just hear to complain. Maybe putting people down and telling them they are nothing compared to these super graphic artists makes you feel good about yourself. But I dunno why that would be, cuz you didnt show anything that YOU made. Or did you? And do remember, that some of the pics you showed of the "digital overkill' are as old as '99.
To get to the point: What you said may be true maybe not, but none the less it wasnt neccessary. Why did u feel u needed to come here and tell us we suck and that we arent real artists? Just get lost, you're not needed here.
i don't see why someone has to be an adult and a professional to earn the title of graphic artist.
your two distinctions between a "real" graphic artist and the people who should "shut up" are: a) age, and b) whether or not the person gets paid for his work. neither criteria affects the art itself.
i couldn't care less if a 35 year old is making money off his work or if a 15 year old is doing it just for fun. some might even say that the 15 year old is the "real" artist because at least he didn't sell out
It's true up to a point, but you do yourself no favours by coming across like a three year old who's had 'see me' scribbled on the bottom of their pretty sunflower painting by teacher - especially since that, amongst many other things, is what you're criticising the users of this site for. There are some idiots who post to this site, plenty of 'em in fact; I'd go as far as to say that there are more idiots per cubic metre at Customize than at any of the other 'skinning'/art sites. I have noticed the biggest idiots are the ones who upload nothing at all - draw your own conclusions about that. Maybe I'm masochistic, maybe I have a weird streak in me, but (up to a point) I enjoy uploading here if only to run the gauntlet - I've been pissed off with 'em in the past myself, but I have an enjoyable home life and I'm not about to let a few comments scribbled in a comments form on a skinning site get me down. But I digress.
Your whole theme about professional art sites and Customize is lost on me. Nobody here claims to be a professional graphic designer (except maybe the ones who are, who produce work for small, largely unheard-of photo libraries like Getty Images - people like, Shinter [http://users.customize.org/shinter] for instance, who is responsible in part for the huge selling Infinity series - ). For the most part the users of this site are people who have cracked copies of 3D Studio Max and Photoshop (I'm a journalist - I get my software for free - but I'd probably warez it too if I didn't). They see the kind of work that artists like Shinter produce and they have a go at it themselves. I certainly fall into that last category. Do I think I'll ever be as good as Shinter and/or making a living at it - ermm, no. However, the fact that most of us here are just 'amateurs' playing with renders and "Automotonic, drool inducing, seen one seen them all, attempts at abstraction by fading layers and shifting objects in photoshop" doesn't mean we have no right to comment. It may amaze and startle you, but we actually like our "scanlined ameobic uhhh....Things".
Your list of links, those "examples of what graphic art "IS".....what professional graphic artists do, as opposed to what teenagers do" serve no purpose other than to make you look rather silly. The kind of abstracts produced on this site are exceptionally popular - open any modern magazine (I'd give examples, but I don't know which country you're from) and you'll find examples of them. In other words the stuff that the "teenagers" on this site produce is actually in solid rotation at all the large photo libraries from Photodisc and Corbis and Getty down to open libraries like iStockPhoto. I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a rendering of a pin face in a magazine or on the cover of a book or used in the inlay for a CD or in an advert, but I can't, because (ermm) the only thing you could use such a tedious image for would be (oh, I don't know ...) hemmeroid cream.
Finally, the cornerstone of your problem - "don't act like you are a professional by talking shit, and being arrogant, and acting liking your blessed with an incredible amount of artistic knowledge." Why does anyone have to be "blessed" with "artistic knowledge" (whatever the fuck that is) to comment? Should all criticism be reserved for "professional" graphic designers because they get paid to do it? OK, so let's get this straight - I'm not earning money for this - therefore (QED, in fact) - I can't comment - I have no opinions - I am worthless grubby little worm not worthy to lick the speckled rectums of those that get paid to produce nasty looking renders of pin faces. If your 'art' was as weak as your arguments are then I'm not surprised you got flamed.
the day I need other people to categorize what I do and what it should be called is the day I'll let myself be tied up, drugged and shot in the head.
Picking on specific examples is lame, and the examples of you showed of "real" graphic artists, well, weren't that hot. Not as wallpapers anyway.
The examples you showed of "bad" graphics are some of the most respected,. not to mention older pieces of art on custo. They actually are the very papers a lot of artists around here emulate. Why? Because they look tuff on the desktop, and that's what it's about there. We don't proclaim to be proffesional artists here. We are hobbiests, producing work for our peers and for our own enjoyment. Our pieces are geared towards enhancing the the desktop. Maybe if people were paying them, they would be more proffessional.
Apples to oranges I say.
Also, pretty lame digging on kids who are obviously doing something creative and constructive with their time, rather than hanging out at the mall.
I don't know. Looks to me like you've got a bad case of sour grapes.
This is not an art site.
:::admin:::ten four old buddy, destroy, kill all hippies:::
Your post made me tremble with fear and angst, because alas, I am one of those teenagers who submits stuff resembling the ďborg like digital anarchy that's been done 15,492,728 times before.Ē
I donít do it so I can get flamed for it. I donít do it so I can get praise for it. I do it so I can get constructive comments, and learn from them, so that maybe one day I could produce something of professional grade quality. Now Iím not talking about comments coming from someone with a masterís degree, but comments that come from normal people, a lot of whom havenít even taken an art class in their life. I am an amateur, and since Iím only a teenager Iím using the bootlegged copies of 3ds MAX and Photoshop. Iím making an effort to learn these programs, and to become more familiar with them so that one day I might be able to create something resembling the links that you posted (scanlined amoebic things, or professional grade stuff, Iíd be happy being able to produce either.)
If you donít start somewhere, you never end up getting anywhere.
I use custo as a guide that tells me what people like or donít like. Sure, you have to sift through the immature people whoís comments have more numbers in them than letters (7h15 5uX0rZ!), but if you just ignore them, I see no problem.
As for whether or not I consider myself a graphic artist, I donít really care. Iíve gotten paid before and am currently hired by 2 companies (A theater company and a small time record label.) They donít care how old I am, they donít care how much education I have, they just care about whether or not I can provide them with what they want.
There is a very fine line between what art is and what art isnít. Sometimes there is no line at all. What you think is trash could be making the big bucks being sold on a library CD, and what you think is godlike art could be stagnating in some remote corner of the internet.
Well, all said and done, I agree with colossus, sounds like a bad case of sour grapes.
I really don't feel like reading all of these comments, or even to finish reading your post, Gwabble.
It's completely senseless, but allow me to point out what's wrong with your arguement.
Your comparisons have nothing at all to do with each other. First you show a rendered scene from one of those global illumination renderers (i.e. Brazil, )... Then you show something that is not a scene, but actually abstract art. The level of work, detail and effort put into either may or may not be the same, but you're trying to compare apples and oranges... and then trying to convince people that apples are better.
I say art is art to whoever makes it and whoever likes it. If you don't, you're just wasting your time making a topic like this. Starting a topic like this is just meant to invite people to argue with you.
I wasn't even going to grace this with a response...but I just couldn't resist. Still, I am trying to sort out of the meaning of the word "diserve."
That said, your post is, as I put it on IRC when I first read it, ridiculous and absurdly out of place. This site does not cater towards "professional graphic art." It's is a site geared towards skinning applications and desktop customization. To make a claim that we present ourselves as a "digital art gallery" is among the most asanine accusations I've ever read.
Before going off on a rant like this, you need to remember two concepts. The first one is to try to stay within the context of your medium. Posting a rant like this on a forum for a site that is geared towards something entirely different than your purpose does nothing more than arouse anger among the members of that community and quite honestly wastes our time.
The second concept I take from Bill Watterson, author of Calvin and Hobbes.
"Face it kid, getting a reaction isn't the same as saying something important"
Ok, first of all, you need a good definition of what art is.
Art is made to produce a reaction, to make feel something, good or bad, to the public. Thats the short one.
This site is a place to upload and download wallpapers and skins to make look good your desktop.
See the difference??
It doesn't matter if is trendy, it doesn't matter if it has been donne a 1000 times before. WHO CARES? is supposed to look nice in your computer, nothing more.
Second: most of the guys (and the few girls) are under 18, day are just learning, they don't know too much about art and design, they are Kids!! Like someone said before... good thing they are doing something productive with their time, and not hanging out at the mall.
They are young and like anyone young they will follow what others are doing, and is not wrong, is part of the learning process.
If you know That much, instead of saing they are crap, try to pass by what you know, give them so advices to improve!
Is not that I know that much, but I know a little , I'm a profesional graphic designer, and have been studing art with one of the best latinamerican artist for 2 years, so I have learn a little, adn try to give to those good guys in this website some advices, sometimes I feel like i'm talking to the air, but someone will listen and if they don't, who cares, most of them just do it like a hobby. maybe some of them will be designers, some artist... but again they do walls and skins just because they like to do it.
If you where looking for an art community, you came to the worng place and there is no need to insult everybody I'm sure you where young and thought you was eating the world with your attitude, and thats what those guys think... to bad you already forgott that...
and yes I am very young, almost 21, but I think I know more things than you, I know how to live and leave others live too, I don't say everybody how stupid they are, how inmature they are, because I have been stupid, and I have been inmature (and I'm still inmature) but of course, I'm sure you where born knowing evrything about "art" and just can't understand why people start doing, like you said, "crap" when they are so young and they don't have enough knowledge...
if he considers this community to be full of little youngins that don't matter, why is he here at all? shouldn't he just have left along time ago, because obviosuly this site is just a bunch of little kids who don't know anything?
at no point in his post did he make any real sense... he compared trajik's paper to a render of one of those big pin things that you stick stuff on. like colossus said: apples and oranges. both examples are art, but neither one has anything to do with the other. the only similarity is that they were both made with a computer.
he seemed pretty coherent in the beginning of his long-winded and ridiculous post, however he disintegrated into anger-driven whining and bitching.
take out all of the meandering, all of the name-calling, all of the ageism, and all of the soap-box shouting, and you're left with something like this:
"waa, people here didn't like my pictures. i'm taking my toys and going home. but first i'm going to insult you all and try to convince you that you're all too young to matter and too stupid to know what real art is. oh by the way, real artists get payed for their work so nyah nyah nyah. you dummy-heads."
As coestar put it, please dont try to compare professional renders with 2d abstract art. They are two different styles. The fact that professional art isn't displayed here at Custo is that professional artists get paid for their work, and are generally too buys to release some of their hard earned work for free. Most of the people here are obviously not professional artists, but it's a good palce to start to get some exposure and "learn the ropes". It's like going to a High School Baseball team and asking them why they can't beat the Yankees.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a real artist like Van Gogh, didn't sold a painting in his life... so what the hell does money have to do with art?? nothing
Money is the result when you sell your work, because you need to eat, but it doesn't make the artist.
I agree, custo is a good place to start. But i think it doesn't matter the kind of art you compare with, in the end, is all art, with different techniques (did I spelled that right??). You can even compare Picasso with Rembrant, because art goes far beyond what you see at first sight, art is what you feel.
who would want a picture of a computer on their computer? how old are you anyway, i hope you're just some angry teen with PMS because i know you aren't some "mature" adult because THOSE people don't do things like this and express their frustration over their incompetence. we have wallpapers her, not striking brilliant pieces of art that we print out and hang on our walls to admire forever. i don't see any of your work and i don't know why you're even here in the first place. anyhow, i hope you had fun trying to be arrogant, immature, and professional. i had quite a good laugh after reading your post and am glad you put so much time into finding those links for our edification.
if all you wanted was attention, you could have asked.
nice to see you haven't reposted yet, but i'm sure you logged out and are reading this. for a teenager, you sure have a lot of time, shouldn't you be doing your homework now instead of looking for something to make negative.
feel free to repost anytime, we're waiting for your "professional" opinion.
Don't be a player hater! Be an intramural participater!
Damn dude, who pissed in your Cheerios? ...and for the record, it was a "bag of hell."
I should not even try to rebut against your post, because clearly, in your tiny mind, you are The G.O.D, and noone else even remotely matters... but I'm going to anyway (my head has an affinity for brick walls, such as the one that is your thought process). It's not the flamers and the spammers that wreck a site, it's assholes like you who do. Attacking the site as a whole is a waste of our time and yours. One simple-minded person versus an entire site and everyone else who posts there is a losing battle, and one that only a complete fool would start in the first place. The images you are comparing in your little rant here are art versus design, two categories that, while similar, are not the same.
Enough has been said here by other people that I need not continue with this. Anetalaya said it better than I ever could, mainly because I refuse to start a battle of wits with someone so poorly armed as yourself.
If you knew what I was really thinking, you would probably stand a little farther away from me...
gwabble, I agree with you. But, in all honesty what did you expect? This isn't a design portal, or even a design community...the people here are mostly teenagers who dont know shit from shinola about professional graphic artists.
Jesus Flashback - did you read *any* of the replies to his post? This site's got fuck all to do with professional (as in - paid for) art. And, for the record, I'd pitch any of the 'teenagers' here against so-called professional artists any day of the week. Perhaps they feel threatened by it all...
Sometimes I just think people love to see their words in print - "art" is generally an expression of a persons emotions in visual form... what some people perceive to be good, may be hated by others - that's what makes art as a whole so funky.
Mind you, looking at some of the art, some peoples emotions are FAR too deep for my liking...
,.;';.,rlinney2001,.;';., -The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist-
flashback, you dont know "shit from shinola" (wtf is shinola?) thats why your works isnt that good. Go find a dark corner and sit in it. Dont criticise a community of artists that you are in the mid-bottom level of.
"shit from shinola" is a referance from one of the greatest comedic films of all time, "the Jerk". Maybe that was a little too obscure for you "teenagers" (alright don't get offended now I'm being intentionally cynical). Anyways, I know this site has nothing to do with "professional graphic artists", wasn't that clear in my first post? And it's ok if you dont like my (old) stuff...I'm stating the way that I see things. I'm not complaining, I like coming here occasionally. The only thing I criticize is your knowledge of the greater community that is out there, the art community that doesn't mod their desktops, that gets paid for what they do, etc. etc. That being said, Dokt, your comment about pitting people here against "professionals" is laughable. There are maybe a handful of people that contribute here that I would say are on that level, but thats because I know they do other things aside from just wp's and skins. Regardless taste is subjective, and I can see that I'm out numbered here so, to each his own...
ok buddy shut the fuck up. First off people do different types of art depending on there skill levels and secondly your comparing different art styles completely. Whos to say that a the "pros" as you call them can even do something even remotely like that of what you call a "kiddie" and the opposite can be said for the "kiddies". People do different styles because thats what they like to do. So basically take your 2 bit view and shove it up your ass.
thought I am a teenager... I try and be constructive... I think you have to much, education of sorts, that you come up with non-essential and pointless arguments to show what? colossus is awesome, so listen to him/// he is wise