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Netscape vs. Mozilla

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OddFox says:

Hey guys, this is just a quick little thread to ask what my fellow customize.org denizens thought about something that I've been pondering for... oh... 5 minutes.

I just installed Netscape 7 around 10-15 minutes ago and have been browsing and surfing around in a sort of frenzy ever since. Now, before anyone asks, the reason I even had the impulse to check out Netscape 7 is all the great things I've been hearing about it (And Mozilla) and I found that there's a quick little add-on you can get that adds the proper lines to your prefs.js so you can use the built-in popup blocking system. I thought to myself neat, but does it still suck (And I mean suck hard) like Netscape 6.

Well, suffice to say, I am extremely impressed. Netscape 7 is Mozilla 1.0.1 and more, and I can see that Netscape puts their product through extreme polishing and testing before releasing it (Granted, Netscape 6 was a joke, but I hope this new thing with quality Netscape products continue). I find that, in general, sites load faster, display better, and even plug-ins like Flash work unbelievably better in it. I loaded up 2advanced (Been using it for benchmarking for a week or so now) and was simply blown away by how much faster things worked than in Internet Explorer 6.0 SP1 (Don't even get me started on Opera 6.05, I uninstalled it, as it no longer satisfied my personal needs. It became my slowest performer.).

So there I was, literally just having my mind blanked out by something I would have never expected. It seemed like a good idea to me to try other sites w/Flash to see if it wasn't a fluke, and to try other sites in general. Sure enough, I loaded up a variety of the 2advanced websites (Their portfolio) and a bunch of skin sites and other sites. I've never seen performance like this with any, I repeat ANY Mozilla build (I've been using since about 0.9.7, and up to all the latest and greatest, even bleeding-edge builds). It leads me to believe that Netscape finally got their act together in their finished product, since they realized just how dire their battle with Microsoft, as well as competitors like Opera, has become. It's life or death now, and Netscape, imho, has finally realized that.

So anyways, to end this whole long, long post, I would like to ask if anyone else has any input, or would like to test-drive as well, to see what results they get. If you'd like a link to the little snippet of code that allows for pop-up ad blocking, just ask.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

12:42 pm, Saturday, September 21, 2002 (11 years ago)
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merkurixx says:

oh oh oh i want the link! ;)

12:45 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:



If that doesn't work, well, let me know and I'll post a link to the auto-installer I used.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

01:04 pm (11 years ago)
168
darksheer says:

Mozilla is truely a remarkable browser. First off, it is current the most supported browser out there (next to ie 5.0)

Here's what's happened. When IE 4 originally came out, MS made the HUGE mistake of making it translate horrible HTML into usable pages. This led to a terrible trend in the industry of writing some of the most convoluted and torn up code on earth.

HTML became the first language ever to allow this. Try to write a line of C code and type one character out of place and see what happens. The results will definitely not be what you want.

Microsoft finally realized that this trend could not continue. The browser continues to become more bloated as it grows to support more and more fallbacks for idiotic HTML syntax. As it gets bigger, it also slows down SIGNIFICANTLY (Opera's desire to ensure that all pages work has shown their rendering engine's inability to scale which is why it has become slow). This is why you now see pages which work in IE 5, but not in IE 6. MS is gradually removing all the support for broken-ass html.

What does that mean for Mozilla / Netscape 7? Well, it puts them in a very good position. MS is now having to backtrack and do standards compliance while Netscape and Mozilla are already there.

And yes, the feature of "smart-popup-blocking" is great! It only blocks unrequested pop-ups, which is really nie. I can still visit sites that want me to pop open a window to see something, but their stupid "You win" banner doesn't show up.

If you haven't yet, I highly recommend giving both a try.

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ds
Customize.org Admin

01:48 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

I wish I could get my hands on a beta copy of Opera 7. :)

I still love this Netscape 7 install tho. Thanks for the post darksheer.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

02:02 pm (11 years ago)
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merkurixx says:

oh, the option for diabling all popups in mozilla has to be turned on -

edit>preferances>advanced>scripts & windows, and uncheck the box that says "open unrequested windows"

thatll do the same thing as the netscape hack that oddfox linked to.

02:54 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

Yea, under Mozilla it's in the menus by default. Under Netscape, you have to edit your prefs.js file to make it appear in there. Not a whole lot of a big deal but some people still don't like having to "workaround" it.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

03:29 pm (11 years ago)
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ad0nai says:

I've finally come home to Mozilla. I was a die-hard Netscape user in the days before IE when Gates thought the Internet was a fad that would pass. For some reason or other became an IE user after a time. Probably because MS bundled it with every-blessed thing and kept cramming it in my face. Since Mozilla reached 1.0, I've come to realize the speed, agility in tabbed browsing, and skinnability can no longer be ignored. Using a nightly 1.2a at the moment. I'll never go back. I love the feeling of using a browser built by the people and for the people. And the knowing that concerns are quickly addressed and repaired in a timely manner.

________________________
DeskMod Head Administrator

03:51 pm (11 years ago)
168
darksheer says:

Tabbed browsing is one of the greatest features I've ever seen implemented in a browser. I mean, SERIOUSLY. How many times have you gotten pissed off with the 10 different browser windows open on your desktop. Tabbed browsing flat out owns!

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ds
Customize.org Admin

04:18 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

I don't really use tabs all that often really. I have my middle-button (Wheel button, really) set to double-click, so I can't quickly open new tabs. Have to go thru the context menu.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

07:10 pm (11 years ago)
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Compo says:

well netscape really lost when it came to their latest versions against IE(thats why at school i always go through the windows explorer rather than their lame ass version of netscape), but maybe i'll give NS v7 a try(that is when i free up all this trash off my hd[the one downside of broadband ;) ] ... first i'll what other people think...

.compo
ya know... where would I be without my dot, dot, dot...?
[.peace]

07:38 pm (11 years ago)
168
darksheer says:

The problem isn't that IE was really superior to Netscape...though it was (at least versions 4 and 5 were). The biggest problem was that IE allowed programmers to be lazy, something they'd never gotten to be before.

Now that MS has realized that they can't let programmers stay lazy and still put out a usable browser, they are again on equal footing....rendering-wise.

And, with features like tabbed-browsing, smart popup blocking, and skinability, it looks like MS was the one taking a nap in the browser market, and it could be time for them to get bitten in the ass.

Truthfully, Mozilla 1.0 is probably the most feature-rich browser available, and when you combine it with the impending reversion to "good code" on the web, it's certainly poised to compete again. :)

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ds
Customize.org Admin

08:17 pm (11 years ago)
168
darksheer says:

oh, and here is an interesting article about the "impending reversion to some actual good code and standards on the web" that I keep talking about.



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ds
Customize.org Admin

08:19 pm (11 years ago)
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Compo says:

ya know, while was terrible idea for microsoft to let programmers to get lazy - you can kinda see where they were coming from - allow as many pages as possible to look okay to as many users as possible. Too bad it didn't work out though...

.compo
ya know... where would I be without my dot, dot, dot...?
[.peace]

08:23 pm (11 years ago)
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Compo says:

btw darksheer, is charter as bad about a so called constant connection for u as it is for us?

.compo
ya know... where would I be without my dot, dot, dot...?
[.peace]

08:24 pm (11 years ago)
168
darksheer says:

The problem is that over time, the code got so bad, there was just no way to support it ALL anymore.

As far as Charter goes...sucks ASS.

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ds
Customize.org Admin

08:45 pm (11 years ago)
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Compo says:

hehe, same here, i love how when i call tech support im transfered to california a couple times, and then my advice is - did ya try unplugging it?
alright thats the end of my rant - continue on with oddfox's thread of mozzilla vs. netscape

.compo
ya know... where would I be without my dot, dot, dot...?
[.peace]

08:48 pm (11 years ago)
4214

i got charter, not to budge in on a con, but its great here, i have only had 3 time for like 5/15 min it wouldnt work.

I use mozilla 1.0.1 now, after finding out that it hit 1.0 I used it. I support the open source community, and i love mozilla for that.

It renders pages fast!, but it lags now on some pages w/ many, many, many pics on thime (like over 400 somewhat large pics). i dont know if i should go to build 1.2 or what
what are your thoughs on that, stay at 1.0.1 or go to 1.2?

10:00 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

Shi_No_Ryuu_XI: I say either upgrade to a nightly build, or give Netscape a whirl. While it uses Mozilla as the codebase, Netscape hammers a lot of issues out, and makes general improvements that may have been missed.

Not that Open Source Software is bad, but the people developing it for free are hobbyists, for the most part.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

11:32 pm (11 years ago)
168
darksheer says:

Shi: As far as your image loading problem goes, yeah, that's been an issue in mozilla for a long time now, and it's actually a similar in NS7 (last time I checked).

What it's caused by is the way the rendering engine handles images (which is actually far more efficient than IE handles them, it just makes for a bit of lag). IE goes ahead and loads all the images of the page into memory no matter how many or how big, using swap space if necessary, which is why you get little tiny lag spikes when you switch from RAM onto swap (Virtual memory for you windows buffs) to grab the images.

Mozilla's method is to cache only the visible images in memory, which is why the page gets laggy when you try to scroll, becuase it's having to change which images are loaded into memory on the fly.

This keeps your system MUCH more stable while loading these large pages as you're not eating 100% of your resources to handle the one page, but it does make for slower operation.

I'm guessing that there's a hybrid of the two solutions which would involve making calculations as to which images are most likely to come into view immediately and use RAM based on that, but as far as writing the actual code for it...that's not my job. :-P

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ds
Customize.org Admin

03:54 am (11 years ago)
4214

darksheer: thanks, that makes sence, b/ ig got real laggy, and images became black boxes, b/ i was scrolling fast. Well that hybrid idea makes sence.. but coding it would be hard.... seeing that I only know basic html...

OddFox: thanks for the tip. i will look into MS again, but well, i hate AOL, and i wish that the original team was back on NS, b/ well they has a great product back in the day..... way back, back in the day of win95 on my p133 box... that I still use...
Im downloading the 1.2 alpha, b/ im too lazy to give a nightly build a try, and have to update it all the time. But I will do that sometime this week if i remeber.

12:46 pm (11 years ago)
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Knuff says:

As for Netscape or Mozilla, Mozilla obviously wins. They have the same engine, but Mozilla is a community project and isn't owned by AOL.

03:00 pm (11 years ago)
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rift says:

anyone know the hotkey to switch tabs in mozilla?
:P

03:35 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

Knuff: You have a large misunderstanding between the two products. Mozilla is the bleeding-edge open source browser that is constantly being updated and revised. Netscape has never and will never be interested in stuff like that. Netscape focuses on making a better product for the end-user. Sure, it's not open sourced or as advanced (In terms of features) as Mozilla, but it's not just Mozilla w/AOL. It's Mozilla put through extreme scrutiny, and shaped into a product worthy for the majority to use.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mozilla is awesome, Mozilla is great, but Mozilla is BUGGY! Netscape minimizes the bugs and adds a few things as well (Various tweaks and bolt-on programs, like AIM/ICQ). Remember, you don't have to install everything, it's just like Mozilla. You can select what you want to install. I don't have the IM clients installed, just Navigator & Mail.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

07:04 pm (11 years ago)
168
darksheer says:

Mozilla is buggy, but if you're running beta version of software, you've gotta learn to expect that...its certainly not an issue confined to one project, or open source projects for that matter.

Most mozilla releases are considered "beta" even if they are "stable" It even says so on their site...

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ds
Customize.org Admin

09:49 pm (11 years ago)
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Knuff says:

Oddfox: I've used both Netscape and Mozilla quite a bit, and it seems to me that Netscape is just Mozilla with AOL and a shiny new label.

10:18 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

Knuff: You don't want to see any other differences, apparently.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

11:27 pm (11 years ago)
4214

mozilla, buggy? well im using 1.1 right now, i dont see any bugs right now, and I have been using mozilla for tha past few months. But i do get the netscape icon for the icon on the tastbar thing. I likes the gecko they had before.

06:16 am (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

Shi_No_Ryuu_XI: Believe me, it's buggy. Take a look at the buglist.

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

07:42 pm (11 years ago)
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echo fx says:

i just downloaded it, and i must say it is alot nicer then the previous versions. i keep trying to use it, but i can't tare myself away from using IE (netcaptor, for the tabs)....o well, atleast netscape is headed in the right direction.

Step away from the box!

08:05 pm (11 years ago)
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OddFox says:

I thought that NetCaptor had spyware or ads in it?

Fuck 'em, and their law!
I made a god out of blood / Not superiority

08:16 pm (11 years ago)
 
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